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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:33 pm 
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Here is the problem with relying on Classic Traveller to make a comparison. Flynn didn't use Classic Traveller in creating the Cepheus Engine because he couldn't. What he could use was the SRD from 1st Edition Mongoose Traveller, and the SRD from Traveller 20. It's rather difficult to claim the Cepheus Engine is somehow "wrong" when a) the material you compare it to isn't stuff Flynn used, and b) Flynn had to fill in gaps when he combined the two different SRD documents into one.

Flynn had to come up with the damage figures for most weapons from scratch. The T20 SRD has damage figures, but the vast majority of them are useless as they, in addition to the d6, use d4, d8, and d10 with a possible d12 thrown in. The MgT SRD doesn't have any damage figures at all. Thus, unless Flynn pops in and says "those numbers are wrong" we can't automatically assume there is a mistake here.

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Star Trek: Alpha Quadrant: The game Mongoose failed to make. (File Updated 5/19)


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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:09 am 
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That's why I said possible mistake. :D

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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:43 am 
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The question really is whether I like his numbers. I'll mull it over, but cutting the cudgel to 2D6 is likely. The sword likely had damage figures based on the MgT rapier (1d6+4). I'll have to think about it.

EDIT: I checked the numbers, and decided that using the Classic Traveller values was a better choice. From appearances, the 1d6 value in Cepheus is a result of MgT omitting the foil and sword and adding in a rapier to replace them. As previously noted, T20 was useless in that regard and MgT had the same problem the 1977 version of Traveller had: damage values that on a successful hit do no damage.

I'll push an update shortly.

EDIT 2: File updated.

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Star Trek: Alpha Quadrant: The game Mongoose failed to make. (File Updated 5/19)


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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:02 am 
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Traveller wrote:
The question really is whether I like his numbers. I'll mull it over, but cutting the cudgel to 2D6 is likely. The sword likely had damage figures based on the MgT rapier (1d6+4). I'll have to think about it.

EDIT: I checked the numbers, and decided that using the Classic Traveller values was a better choice. From appearances, the 1d6 value in Cepheus is a result of MgT omitting the foil and sword and adding in a rapier to replace them. As previously noted, T20 was useless in that regard and MgT had the same problem the 1977 version of Traveller had: damage values that on a successful hit do no damage.

I'll push an update shortly.

EDIT 2: File updated.


I'm looking at p. 82 of Cepheus right now. It says 3d6 for a sword, foil, and cutlass. I think that makes sense. A "blade" is 2d6. GT considered a "blade" to be a "short sword." That's why I thought the 1d6 was a typo. Also, the description of foil is "also known as the rapier," just like CT. I don't know. It's a judgment call, I guess. I've always thought that the melee damage in Traveller was kinda screwy.

I considered that Kemp had changed the cudgel for the reasons that you mentioned. I don't believe Mongoose uses cudgels. Anyway, it looks like he's used a lot of CT rules to fill in the Mongoose OGL gaps.

I don't remember what the damage dice from T20/SciFi 20 were. I personally wouldn't have a problems with funny-looking dice Platonic solids, as long as they made sense.

What? No 3d6-8 body pistols or 4d6-8 carbines? :)

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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:22 am 
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Cudgels are clubs, and MgT has clubs.

I'd have an issue with non-cubic solids in the game, though the Founders won't be happy I'm using solids at all. :lol: I avoid using "Platonic" here because the d10 isn't a Platonic solid.

Those 1977 damage values were wonky eh? :D

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Star Trek: Alpha Quadrant: The game Mongoose failed to make. (File Updated 5/19)


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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:07 pm 
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It's not just the '77 edition. I bought it shortly after it came out. I remember thinking that it was odd that a broadsword would do as much damage as a laser carbine, and more damage than any firearm, except a shot gun. It was 4d6 under CT. I did some checking this morning. It dropped to 3d6 under MT and 2d6 under T4. Last night I looked at SciFi 20. A broadsword is 2d6 and a LMG is 1d12. The numbers on weapons damage are all over the place. Might as well just use whatever you think is right. That seems to be what everyone else has done.

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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Well, since my original intent thirty years ago was to use Classic Traveller in the first place, I'm going to stick with the numbers I put in last night. I think it fits right in with my thoughts on combat: deadly and to be avoided.

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Star Trek: Alpha Quadrant: The game Mongoose failed to make. (File Updated 5/19)


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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:43 pm 
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I could've sworn that I'd written a message last night. It seems to have disappeared. :x

Traveller wrote:
Cudgels are clubs, and MgT has clubs.


Cudgels are quarterstaves or rifle butts. Clubs are night sticks or improvised weapons. The classic example was the beer bottle. It's a club until you break it over somebody's head, then it's Blade-1.

Quote:
Well, since my original intent thirty years ago was to use Classic Traveller in the first place, I'm going to stick with the numbers I put in last night. I think it fits right in with my thoughts on combat: deadly and to be avoided.


I still think Traveller combat is too bloody for Star Trek. Today is not necessarily a good day to die.

The only damage table I've seen for energy weapons in AQ is on page 44. You're either stunned or dead. I'm not sure how playable that is. That might ok for mooks, but nobody wants to play a redshirt.

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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Quote:
I still think Traveller combat is too bloody for Star Trek. Today is not necessarily a good day to die.


I might be okay with it as long as there's an alternative. Surrender and get taken prisoner so you can escape later, etc. Especially in TOS there weren't a lot of (or maybe any?) shootouts. It's usually taking someone by surprise, or duking it out with fists and flying kicks.

Knocking someone's phaser or disruptor out of their hands is probably easier in the Star Trek universe.


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 Post subject: Re: [FASA Trek]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Starfleet characters, which is the game default, usually set phasers to stun anyway. In universe, it's part of Starfleet's policy to not initiate a confrontation. The reality is that the network censors of the '60s would have had a field day otherwise. In the arcane rules of the day you could fire as many stunning shots as you wanted, but you couldn't fire a kill shot unless it was at an inanimate object or something clearly not human.

I digress however. Energy weapons shouldn't do damage like an ordinary firearm, because they're a hell of a lot more deadly than any bullet. Thus energy weapons only have three damage conditions: stunned, seriously wounded, and dead. Conflict is something to be avoided unless there are no other options.

As to how playable it is, it should be quite playable as it shares a lot of similarities with FASA Star Trek. In FASA, melee and projectile weapons did a varying amount of damage. Energy weapons had a fixed amount of damage. Stun effects were temporary, and a phaser set to disintegrate would instantly kill the target. ST: AQ eliminates the fixed damage amounts of FASA Star Trek and replaces them with the damage conditions given in the book. The only real difference between the two systems is ST: AQ doesn't have rules for grazing shots. You either hit or you don't.

@Matt Wilson: A good adventure I believe would have those alternatives you mention. But how a particular member of the Q Continuum chooses to pursue an adventure is up to them. With 700+ hours of television and film however, virtually anything is possible.

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Star Trek: Alpha Quadrant: The game Mongoose failed to make. (File Updated 5/19)


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