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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:11 pm 
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Daniel wrote:
I have one question: Is the assumption everyone is making is that Mongoose is now the Marc Miller police?

I mean Mongoose keeps saying one source when referring to their own stuff and their OGL. But there is SJG for example. Does this mean Mongoose thinks SJG will stop doing Traveller? I am confused by Mongoose Matt's full statement.

Daniel


Nope. SJG is completely separate from all this, they have their own Traveller license that lets them carry on as long as they want to keep renewing it.

Mongoose is not "the Marc Miller police". Fact is, the license they negotiated means that they are the only publishers of OTU material, and if you want to publish some yourself you have to negotiate with them. That's what Avenger have done, and they can publish OTU material too as a result.

Where it's gotten fuzzy is regarding material set in the Charted Space setting that people publish on websites and fanzines and other non-profit means (I won't say "in the OTU" because it's not - it's really "in non-canonical ATUs"). Once that is clarified, we'll know what's going on.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:31 pm 
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Malenfant wrote:
Daniel wrote:
I have one question: Is the assumption everyone is making is that Mongoose is now the Marc Miller police?

I mean Mongoose keeps saying one source when referring to their own stuff and their OGL. But there is SJG for example. Does this mean Mongoose thinks SJG will stop doing Traveller? I am confused by Mongoose Matt's full statement.

Daniel


Nope. SJG is completely separate from all this, they have their own Traveller license that lets them carry on as long as they want to keep renewing it.

Mongoose is not "the Marc Miller police". Fact is, the license they negotiated means that they are the only publishers of OTU material, and if you want to publish some yourself you have to negotiate with them. That's what Avenger have done, and they can publish OTU material too as a result.

Where it's gotten fuzzy is regarding material set in the Charted Space setting that people publish on websites and fanzines and other non-profit means (I won't say "in the OTU" because it's not - it's really "in non-canonical ATUs"). Once that is clarified, we'll know what's going on.
So SJG is not OTU? What about Traveller Hero or T20, they are not OTU? I guess maybe I am not understanding the OTU right.

Daniel


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:27 pm 
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Daniel wrote:
I have one question: Is the assumption everyone is making is that Mongoose is now the Marc Miller police?
Definitely not. I actually think that Mongoose are *the* most sensible and realistic of the current Traveller licence holders. But I think they're in a sticky position - if they don't follow the terms of their licence from Marc, they'll lose it. I wouldn't want to see that happen because I actually like MGT now (and they're a British company ;) ).
Quote:
I mean Mongoose keeps saying one source when referring to their own stuff and their OGL. But there is SJG for example.
I believe that the GT universe is non-canon (although I must admit, the GT sourcebooks are miles ahead of anything GDW ever produced).
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Does this mean Mongoose thinks SJG will stop doing Traveller?
I don't know about that, but SJG are not exactly the most prolific Traveller producers at the moment.

At present, Mongoose and Avenger can publish books using the OTU - no-one else can. SJG can publish books for their (alternate) Traveller universe using the GUPRS system *if they want to* - but it doesn't look like there's much happening on the Traveller front at SKG at the momemnt (and GT is really just a little no aggravation pin money for MWM on the side, I think, hence no licence sunset arrangement). T20 is set in the OTU but QLI's licence runs out at some point. Martin successfully threatened to beat 12 shades of shit out of Matt at Mongoose and got a subby licence from them ;)*

*That is a JOKE, by the way!! A joke!*


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:49 pm 
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Daniel wrote:
So SJG is not OTU? What about Traveller Hero or T20, they are not OTU? I guess maybe I am not understanding the OTU right.

Daniel


No, it's all OTU. Well, SJG's Third Imperium is an "alternate Traveller Universe" after Dulinor's tragically fatal accident which means he never assassinated Strephon. But before that, it's the same universe (tweaked for GURPS rules idiosyncracies). But as I said, SJG have a special license all of their own, unrelated to Mongoose's.

The OTU is anything published by an official licensee, basically. THero is basically just a HERO conversion of the OTU. T20 is set in the 990s era of the OTU instead of CT's 1110 era.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:11 pm 
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Daniel wrote:
I have one question: Is the assumption everyone is making is that Mongoose is now the Marc Miller police?


No, not from my point of view. They just have to move carefully and prudently now, in order to avoid a possible breach of
their licence as well as to paint themselves into some corner. Give them some time to discuss this and to speak to their
lawyers, and they will doubtless come up with the most fandom-friendly solution possible for them. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:34 pm 
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I haven't been around Mongoose for long, but everything I have seen so far suggests that Matt and Company want to do what is right for the fans.

Give it some time.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:35 pm 
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Daniel wrote:
I have one question: Is the assumption everyone is making is that Mongoose is now the Marc Miller police?

No, my assumption is that Mongoose are a bunch of decent fellows stuck between a rock and a hard place in this licensing mess.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:49 pm 
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My gut feeling is that Matt and/or Chris at Mongoose will clarify the position re. fan-created OTU material; it may not (or may, even) be something we want to hear, but their answer(s) will resolve a lot of peoples' (only to be expected) anxieties.

I say patience.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:50 pm 
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R2 will be along any minute and......



(sorry. couldn't resist ;) )


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:52 am 
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Hmm. Well, IIRC in the pre-internet era, most publications and dead tree fanzines at some point published articles which were clearly OTU-based, even if prefaced with "unofficial". I wonder if those were legal, or just an established breach of copyright which was tolerated because, as someone said, there are few games companies who can actually afford to sue anyone - especially fans, who would be unlikely to pay damages. People these days just pay way to much attention to technical legalities rather than their enforcability.

Mal, you missed a third possible outcome in your post on the Mongoose forums - maybe this will spell the end of the OTU ... good news for some, I'm sure :twisted:

Anyway, I'll move to other universes while I await the actual outcome. Whatever happens, this is the end for my involvement with the OTU. I'm getting too old for the stress. :shock:

Printing the SRD as I type ... ;)

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